本次对曹音老师的采访，从她在北京大学考古系本科出身，到哈佛大学人类学的硕士和博士研究生学业，以及多年来就职于西方主要公立艺术博物馆的经验出发，同时以在西方公立体系的中国人视角来看待全球和中国的文化环境，从策展、展览和博物馆三个主要角度阐述了对于文化资源转化为文化资产的理解和思考。 

曹音

曹音，毕业于北京大学考古系和哈佛大学人类学系，自2011年8月起在澳大利亚新南威尔艺术博物馆任中国艺术主任。在此之前曾担任北京大学赛克勒考古与艺术博物馆的副馆长、新加坡国立大学李光前博物馆研究员。目前兼任澳洲华人博物馆董事。曾在山东省、河南省和浙江省及以色列参加过考古发掘，在美国华盛顿史密森尼学会和佛利尔/亚瑟·姆·赛克勒艺术馆进修博物馆管理，并曾在北京大学和悉尼大学讲授博物馆学和遗产学的课程。曾策划包括赛克勒考古与艺术博物馆的开馆展 （1993）、《丝路传奇-虞弘石椁》（2013）、《唐都遗珍》（2016）、《天地人：台北故宫博物院珍宝展》（2019）、《食之道》（2021）等特展。曾发表撰述博物馆学和中国艺术方面论文，并负责编辑和撰写了特殊展览图录。 

#1  策展概念

80年代末我还在北京大学当学生的时候，学校接受了已故赛克勒医生的捐资并开始筹建赛克勒考古与艺术博物馆，当时校方需要有了解博物馆管理的人，1987年我刚毕业就与宋向光老师被送去华盛顿的史密森学院(Smithsonian Institution)学习博物馆管理方面的知识，并在其下属的佛利尔美术馆/亚瑟·姆·赛克勒艺术馆 (Freer Gallery of Art/Arthur M.Sackler Gallery) 进修了15个月。

我们于1988年回到北大，参加新博物馆的筹备工作并开设了博物馆专业的课程。因此我的博物馆（管理）和策展知识都是在边学边实践的过程中所习得。而北京大学赛克勒博物馆作为考古博物馆，是一个专业性较强的教学博物馆。作为学考古出身的我来说，策展只是一种工具。我认为策展人需要对展览所想呈现的主题以及展品有全面深刻的了解，同时策展人必须要有深厚的专业基础，才能把一个展览做出深度和广度，才能了解每件展品能在展览里讲述什么故事，以及每件展品之间的相互联系。若是自然科学方面的策展人，那么必须得非常了解自然科学的专业知识；艺术类展览则需要有艺术史背景。

一个展览的成功举办是包含很多方面的工作，而策展人是团队的核心，需要对展览有深刻的了解， 才能把这个团队凝聚起来。公共教育板块或宣传板块的团队成员，需要知道策展人想表达的东西然后再进行相关的配合，做自己板块的事情，辅助展览更好呈现给观众。

西方体系里有两种策展人，一种是自由策展人, 另一种是博物馆体制内的“策展人”。在中国把“curator”笼统地翻译成策展人，其实我认为是一种误导。我觉得，在博物馆内的curator翻译成“主任”更好，即我们的“主要任务” 是在某个专业领域内开展包括购置藏品、研究、阐释、展出等方面的工作。翻译成策展人，容易令人对此产生局限性的认知，以为就是办一场展览，其实不然。另外，在西方主要公立博物馆里，策展板块独立性很高。在管理上，策展部门跟行政部门是平行的。 

#2  展览概念（沉浸式-科技与展览关系）

现在的所谓“沉浸式”的展览很依赖于现代科技。虽然在这个板块，很多展览在具体呈现方式和技术运用上表现的不同，但有一个核心点是新媒体展览在未来是不可阻挡的一个发展趋势。但是，再怎么发展，技术也只是一个辅助的手段，或者称之为一个展示展览的形式。它不可能取代实体的展览。尽管现在有疫情限制，博物馆普遍选择投入资金和资源做新媒体方面的技术开发，但展览的核心依然是应该以藏品(本馆的永久藏品或从其他收藏机构或个人借来的藏品)为主。技术只能是作为一个新奇的、有吸引力的手段来吸引更多观众对展览感兴趣，和提高对展品的认识。亲临博物馆现场观看展览的体验是无法取代的。在艺术博物馆最好的了解艺术的方式仍然是去美术馆看真迹，在美术馆的环境里去感受。这才是真正的“沉浸”。 

另外一方面，随着现在博物馆学的发展，博物馆更多考虑的是与大众的关系，而不仅仅是藏品的看护人和博物馆的守门人这样的传统角色。以前博物馆与观众的互动是说教式的，而现在更注重观众的参与和互动。博物馆受国际政治经济的大环境影响也越来越强。尤其在西方博物馆，“文化民主”的概念越来越深入人心，正像在Curatorial Activism一书里提及的，意识形态的影响对于新一代策展人会越来越大。 

#3  博物馆声誉与国际影响力

过去的博物馆非常注重学术研究，而随着最近几十年出现的blockbuster exhibition（大型特展）备受欢迎，博物馆的部分功能发生了变化。但现在由于疫情，这种大型引进的展览项目受到了很大的影响，在目前的情况下来办展览，更多的是要在馆藏的基础上，作足够深入的研究，发掘藏品的潜力，而不仅仅是利用噱头，至少要从不一样的角度来阐述展品才能吸引观众的兴趣。不过一个博物馆还是要定期地举办有大师级的、在国际上有影响的展览。以艺术博物馆、美术馆为例，接受国际艺术家也说明你同国际接轨。但在疫情下我们考虑展览的展出和博物馆的运营，要更多一些谨慎。 

#4  博物馆新定义和新角色

国际博物馆协会自1946年成立以来，曾对博物馆的定义作过几次调整，目前使用的定义是2007年在维也纳第22次大会上确定的定义，即“博物馆是一个非盈利的永久性机构，它对公众开放，为社会及其发展服务。它征集、保护、研究传播并展出人类及人类环境的物质和非物质遗产以达到教育、研习和欣赏的目的”。

近些年来，有不少博物馆界人士认为这一定义已过时，并带有霸权性，提出再次修改此定义以更好地适应21世纪的挑战，承担博物馆在持续性发展、道德、政治、社会及文化各方面的责任，以实现“文化民主”。国际博协为此在全球范围内组织了博物馆业界内外的广泛讨论，2019年9月7日在日本京都国际博协执行董事会向特别大会上提出了以下定义进行讨论：

“博物馆是针对过去和未来进行批判性对话的民主化的、具包容性的多声道空间。博物馆承认和表述当今的冲突和挑战，为社会妥善保存物件和标本，为后代保护多种记忆，确保所有人平等可及遗产的权利。

博物馆是非盈利的。它们具有参与性和透明性，而且主动与各种社区合作并为它们进行收藏、保护、研究、阐释、展览，以增进对世界的了解，旨在为人类尊严和社会正义、全球平等和地球的福祉做出贡献。”

“任何一个定义都是对一种现象的观察的结果，一种描述。是对某种价值观的确认，一个乌托邦。”博物馆是历史的产物，在很大程度上反映着某种意识形态，而博物馆的收藏和展览往往都带有一定的政治性。要达到一个全球博物馆都适用的博物馆定义，其实很难。国际博协目前还在广泛的范围内征求意见，计划在2022年9月捷克首都布拉格投票给出新定义。我们翘首期待。

#5  博物馆与赞助制度的模式

在澳大利亚许多博物馆属于政府直属机构，如国立博物馆、各州的州立博物馆，如我在职的新南威尔士艺术博物馆就是属新州政府下的一个机构，馆内编制内的工作人员是州公务员。州政府的拨款用于给馆员发工资和博物馆的基本日常运营，而我们收购藏品、办展览、部分文物修复和其他公共教育活动的经费要靠筹资而来。目前正在进行中的馆的扩建工程-悉尼现代的经费则是来自政府拨款的2.44亿和自筹的1个亿（澳币）。而美国的博物馆以私立为多。疫情下来看，澳洲的这种公立馆的资金模型占优势较大，至少由政府拨款保证人员工资。而且又在很大程度上保证了策展独立性。策展人在这种比较自由的环境下来进行工作，我觉得也是非常幸福又幸运的事情。（文字来源：C+C媒体艺术国际驻留，内容：曹音 谢京爵）

This interview for Dr.Cao Yin is based on her study in Archeology at the Peking University and Anthropology at the Harvard University, along with her curatorial experience at major public art museum in the west. Dr Cao provided her unique transnational perspective in interpreting the global, Chinese cultural environment and how to transfer cultural resources to cultural assets from curatorship, exhibition and museology perspectives. 

Cao Yin, graduated from the bachelor of Archeology at the Peking University, master and Ph.D of Anthropology at the Harvard University. Dr.Cao was nominated as the head of Asian Art at the Art Gallery of New South Wales from 2011. She served as the Deputy Director at the Arthur M.Sackler Museum of Art and Archaeology at Peking University, and the researcher of the Lee Kong Chian Natural History Museum at the National University of Singapore. She is currently the board member of Australian Chinese Museum. Dr.Cao has participated in major archeology researches and field studies in Shandong Province, Henan Province, Zhejiang Province and Israel. She was invited by the Smithsonian Institution Office for museum management course, which contributed her museology and heritage courses at the Peking University and the University of Sydney. Dr.Cao curated various influential exhibitions like the opening exhibition of the Arthur M.Sackler Museum of Art and Archaeology (1993), A silk road saga: the sarcophagus of You Hong )2013), Tang: Treasure from the silk road capital (2016), Heaven and earth in Chinese art treasure (2019), The way we eat (2021) and so on. Dr.Cao has published various influential thesis about museology and Chinese art, as well as dedicated in writing and editing exhibition catalogues.

In the late 1980s, when I was still an archaeology student at Peking University, the school received the donation made by late Dr Arthur M. Sackler, and began to build the Arthur M. Sackler Museum of Art and Archaeology with At Peking University. At that time, the university did not have museology department, but it needs someone who know how to manage a museum. In May 1987, Department of Archaeology sent Prof Song Xiangguang and myself to spend 15 months participating in museum studies workshops at the Smithsonian Institution, and to be visiting scholars at the Freer Gallery of Art and the Authur M. Sackler Gallery (currently the National Museum of Asian Art).  

We returned to Peking University in the fall of 1988 and started to participate in the preparation for the new Sackler museum, and also set up the museology program. As you can see, my museum management skill and curatorial knowledge were acquired in the process of learning and doing simultaneously. The Sackler Museum at Peking University, as an archaeological museum, is a professional teaching museum. As an archaeology student, to me curation is rather like a tool. I think a curator needs to have a comprehensive and profound understanding of the themes and exhibits that an exhibition is to present. A curator must have a solid professional foundation in order to provide the depth and breadth for an exhibition. She or he needs to know how each exhibit can be displayed in an exhibition, what story each exhibit can tell in an exhibition and the interconnectedness of each exhibit. If you are a curator in natural sciences, you must have a deep understanding of the subjects of the natural sciences; an art curator needs to have some background in art history.

A successful exhibition is a result of a team effort, and the curator is the core of the team, who should have a deep understanding of the exhibition in order to unite the team. Other team members, such as those in the public education or publicity section, need to know what the curator intends to express through the exhibition in order to come up with programs in their own section to assist the exhibition to reach the public in its full potential. 

In the west, there are two kinds of curators: freelancer and those who works within a museum setting. In Chinese, “curator” is usually translated as 策展人，which I think is partly misleading. I propose that translation of “curator” in a museum as 主任, whose primary job is to acquire, study, interpret and exhibit collections of certain professional fields. The name of ce zhan ren（策展人）, literarily meaning a person who organizes exhibitions, limits the recognition of other aspects of such a curator’s work. Moreover, curatorship remains highly independent in major western public museums. From administration point of view, curatorial department holds parallel position with other departments within the museum. 

The so-called immersive exhibition in present time relies heavily on technology. Although the style of the presentations and the technology used vary according to exhibitions, the fundamental point is that the application of new media technology in museum exhibition is an irresistible trend in the future. Nevertheless, technology is  only one of the supplementary means in presenting an exhibition, or a new form of exhibition display. It can never replace completely the physical, collection-based exhibitions in museums. With the restraints of COVID-19, museums generally invested funds and resources into exploiting new media and technologies to enhance exhibitions, the core of museum exhibitions, which is collection centered, (either a museum’s permanent collections or loaned collections from other collecting institutions or private collectors), shall never change. Technology can only be as an innovative and attractive means to draw increasingly public into exhibitions, to get better understanding of exhibits. But the experience of going to museums and see the exhibitions is irreplaceable. The best way of getting to know art is still be physically within the museum environment and to feel the artworks, which shall be called the true “immersive” (experience).

On the other hand, as museology further evolves, museums increasingly are aware of their relationships with the public, rather than only seeing themselves as traditional caretakers of the collections or gatekeepers of the museum buildings. In the past, the relationship between museums and their audience tended to be didactic, while now most museums emphasize the public participatory and engagement. Museums are getting stronger influence from the broad international social political and economic environment. Furthermore, the “cultural democracy” becomes more and more advocated and accepted among western museums and societies. Just like what mentioned in the book of Curatorial Activism, ideology plays a significant role in shaping the curators of future generations.  

Historically, museums have focused on research much more. As the blockbuster exhibitions increasingly become eye-catching phenomenon in recent decades, this focus seemed to shifted in certain degree. However, the current COVID-19 pandemic limits this type of blockbuster exhibitions to tour internationally. Many museum exhibitions have to return to the collection-based and well-researched shows. Curators should think from different perspectives to discuss a theme or topic to attract the public’s interests. However, it is still important to hold temporary exhibitions of masters’ works or exhibitions with international impact. As for art museums, organizing international exhibitions of internationally renowned artists demonstrate a museum’s acceptance of international artists or research in order to keep up with the trend. Both the pandemic and post-pandemic eras require more cautious strategies with organizing exhibitions and operating a museum. 

The museum definition has been modified a few times since the establishment of ICOM in 1946. The current definition was approved in 2007 at the 21st General Conference held in Vienna:“A museum is a non-profit, permanent institution in the service of society and its development, open to the public, which acquires, conserves, researches, communicates and exhibits the tangible and intangible heritage of humanity and its environment for purposes of education, study and enjoyment”.

In recent years, many museum professionals think the above definition is outdated and hegemonic, and propose to modify it in order for museums to meet the 21st century challenge and to develop sustainably and fulfil its ethical, political social and cultural obligations to reach the goal of “cultural democracy”. ICOM conducted many sessions of broad discussions both among museum professionals and with communities. On September 7 of 2019, in Kyoto of Japan, ICOM Executive Board proposed the following definition for the Extraordinary Assembly to debate:

“Museums are democratizing, inclusive and polyphonic spaces for critical dialogue about the pasts and the futures. Acknowledging and addressing the conflicts and challenges of the present, they hold artefacts and specimens in trust for society, safeguard diverse memories for future generations and guarantee equal rights and equal access to heritage for all people.

Museums are not for profit. They are participatory and transparent, and work in active partnership with and for diverse communities to collect, preserve, research, interpret, exhibit and enhance understandings of the world, aiming to contribute to human dignity and social justice, global equality and planetary wellbeing”.

This proposed new and long definition inherited some concepts from the old definition, such as : “Museums are not for profit”，their fundamental functions include collect, preserve, research, interpret, exhibit, despite using different words in some occasion. However, the new definition explicitly uses some radical words such as “democratizing, inclusive and polyphonic”，“participatory and transparent” to reflect and respond the social political situation of the twenty-first century. The fact that the Assembly did not reach consensus shows the heated debate between the conventionalists and the reformers.

“A definition is all at once the result of an observation, a description, and the affirmation of some values, a utopia”. Museums are historical products which reflect certain ideology; furthermore, their collections and exhibitions are of, in some degree, political nature. It is quite difficult to come up with one definition that fits all museums globally. Currently, ICOM is conducting further and broader discussions worldwide, and it is supposed to have another vote for a new definition in August of 2022 at Prague in Czech, and we are looking forward to it. 

Many public museums in Australia are affiliated with commonwealth or state governments. For example, Art Gallery of New South Wales where I work is a government institution under New South Wales State government, and the permanent staff of AGNSW are public servants. The State pays for the permanent staff’s salary and the basic operation of the museum. However, the collection acquisition, exhibition and other educational and some conservation activities would all depend on self-raised funds or grants. The fund for the Sydney Modern expansion project currently undergoing is a combination of AUS$244 million from the State government and AUS 100 million of self-raised fund. In America, most museum are private. Under current the pandemic, Australia’s public museum model seems to have its advantage, at least the staff’s salary is guaranteed. This model can also help museum curation staying independent to its maximality. For a curator, I feel very lucky and pleased to work in this free environment.